my two cents...on tipping

[s_ranke]

Hello. I am a restaurant manager and I came across this page in my search for laws or lack there-of on adding gratuity to a bill. As you may or may not know the restaurant industry (due to a very strong lobby) rarely pays tipped employees over $2.15 per. Also insurance policies/benifits are not what you would expect for such a large percentage of workers. I did not start out as a manager, but earned this position after several restaurants and many years of working up to this position. Hosting, bussing, waiting tables, bartending. cooking, washing dishes, everything to do in a restaurant I have done.
Our policy on tipping is: As a courtsey we add 15% to any bill over $50 or to tables of 6 or more people. The reason we do this is that at $50 the tip for good service is $7.50 and taking a "party" table taxes even the best servers abilities (while taking other tables). Of course we still expect these servers to give the utmost quality service and not rely on a large party or a high tab for a good tip.
At most restaurant chains, even if 15% is added, it does not compensate the server for tipping out other employees. This could include busboys, hosts or bartenders, often as much as 3% of their sales. I never made less than 23% in the good markets I worked in and never less than $10 to $15 per hour in the bad (and that was after tipping out), but I attribute that, and where I am now to great customer skills. We currently require 2%, 1% for bar and 1% for bus, which would bring the servers tip down to 13%...The reason I am researching laws on adding gratuity to a check. The best restaurant I ever worked at, added 18% for any table that split a check, had 6 or more guests, used a coupon or used a gift certificate, just because of the added time envolved in facilitating the guest.
I really don't like to go out to eat. I spend so much time in my restaurant that I would rather stay home and cook with my family. But, when I do, I generally tip between 20 and 30%, sometimes even more. When I go out to a bar I usually tip about a dollar per drink (ecspecially if you're ordering multiple drinks or for a party). And a great way to get excellent service in a bar (ecspecially a busy one) is to have your money out, know what you are going to order and perhaps slightly over tip on the first round to get that "face recognition".
I have tried to keep this brief, but if you ever asked anyone in the service industry, you would get at least a two page disertation on the subject. As far as other fields go (in the other work I have done [the house painters for instance]) remember that most bosses are taking in about 50 to 75% of the labor over the cost of matarials. So if the "little" guys do an exceptional job then feel free to tip them (always directly), but unless the entire job was run in a way that was entirely above and beyond what was promised then don't feel obligated.
I hope I have spread a little light here, and if there is any other info. I can provide plaese let me know... Peace, Stephen

[jamesglewisf]

Thanks for the info.

[CuriousG]

I have always found that when my friends and I go out and split the check that the server ends up making out a lot better. Usually everyone ends up tipping at least 15-20% of their own check. I never tip less than $2 even on a $5 bill, say if I just have an appetizer or a drink. I think restaurants often overlook younger people when it comes to tipping. A lot of my friends are servers and bartenders and usually agree that younger people don't stick to a percentage when tipping. As long as its good service we always tip well. No offense to older people, but they are usually the ones that stick rigidly to the percentage tipping. A $20 bar tab gets at least a $5 tip in my book. If you can't afford the tip, then you shouldn't go out, that's just my opinion.

[Joelwrow]

Originally posted by s_ranke
[B]Hello. I am a restaurant manager and I came across this page in my search for laws or lack there-of on adding gratuity to a bill. As you may or may not know the restaurant industry (due to a very strong lobby) rarely pays tipped employees over $2.15 per. Also insurance policies/benifits are not what you would expect for such a large percentage of workers. I did not start out as a manager, but earned this position after several restaurants and many years of working up to this position. Hosting, bussing, waiting tables, bartending. cooking, washing dishes, everything to do in a restaurant I have done.
Our policy on tipping is: As a courtsey we add 15% to any bill over $50 or to tables of 6 or more people. The reason we do this is that at $50 the tip for good service is $7.50 and taking a "party" table taxes even the best servers abilities (while taking other tables). Of course we still expect these servers to give the utmost quality service and not rely on a large party or a high tab for a good tip.........


I guess I am just confused. I was under the impression that a server was supposed to bring your food and refill your drinks. See, if they didn't do that, I wouldn't go back. I'm not sure why it matters if there are 2 people or 60. It's part of the job.

When servers do something that is above their job description, then a tip is in order. If I go out for a steak, I assume that I will get a steak. How is this extra service? It's not like I get a steak and a car wash. When a coke costs 1.50, shouldn't I expect a rapid refill? I mean, isn't payng 1.50 for a 15 cent product worthy of such a reponse?

Does a bar tender really need a 1% tip for pouring Jack in a glass with ice? I mean, why the heck else is he there if not for that EXACT service?

I was under the impression that the term "busboy" implied some sort of table bussing. Why should a tip be rendered for such a service.

I know the pay is **** == but its the owners job to pay the employee, not the patron.

PS -- I can make these statements as a former slave of the industry. Guess what, I left.

[Juan]

I agree with Joelwrow.

I thought gratuity meant in some way being thankful.

I'm not thankful that the waiter got my order correct, or brought the food to the table, or someone cleaned the table prior to me sitting down, it is their job.

Why am I tipping a waiter in the first place, Do I have to pay extra for someone getting my food from the kitchen to my table. That is why I am paying $12.00-$20.00 for an entree. It is the complete meal experience that determines price.

I think a waiter\waitress\busboy\bartender\ect. should get paid by the owner and not the patron. It's like working on comission.

If waiters\ect think that we have to tip because their base pay sucks, than find a better job! Most people hate their jobs in the first place. But we put up with it. Do you think everyone who gets payed minimum wage should get tips.

I think tips should be given for special attention, and I don't remember anyone knocking my socks off in a long time. I once gave a 14 yr old busboy a $20.00 tip because he impressed me with his work ethics, his commitment to details, all the while the waitresses were chattering with each other, ignoring the customers and so forth.

I think we lost focus on the spirit of tipping and are doing it now because it is customery.

[s_ranke]

Too bad you just doubled (at least) my pay rate for the front of the house... Which means you just increased the cost of your dinner by 2 to 3 times. That's right in order to compensate the people that walk out to your table carrying your food or refills in a competative market your steak dinner just went from $14.95 to $29.90 - 44.85 per entree. That would be like asking "Wal-Mart' why they don't have as many people on the floor as "the Gap" or "American Eagle". Or why their jeans only cost $10 instead of $35 or $40. Or why you can get a $.99 burger at "McDonalds" and not at any non-fast-food restaurant in town... If you want to write your congressman (woman) on competative pay for waiters/waitresses go ahead, I'll support you. In the meantime enjoy cleaning your own table at home, washing your own dishes and pots and pans (did you make just one meal or several?), cleaning the floors under your messy kids and oh yeah I forgot... How much do you get paid per hour or per your salary? Don't you think it's at least worth that much to these workers, to forget about your cares for a little while, to be "waited on"?

P.S. I posted to this thread in a attempt at gaining and sharing some knowledge... I plan on posting a printout of this thread in my own and my wifes' workplace so that everyone can logon and get a chance to share some of thier own experiences in our industry. Thanks, SR

[jamesglewisf]

I was at Chilis the other day. I asked the guy waiter if he received any wages other than tips. I think he said he got $2.07 an hour. It might have been $2.13. I didn't write it down. Anyhow, I don't think anyone would say that is an amount you can live on.

[Pinkwoman]

I totally agree, I am 20 and I am an awesome tipper, I think wait staff are catching on to this trend. I am a waitress and I notice that those int the 60ish and over crowd are usually pretty stingy when tipping....

[veryle]

As a "server" or waiter, I do expect to get paid for services rendered. At the same time however, I have seen and experienced terrible service. I feel that there should still be a tip. If you want poor service by kids with don't care attitudes go to Mcdonalds. Joel, you feel that the restaurants should pay higher wages, but that would skyrocket the cost of your meal and eventually force 90 percent of the restaurants out of business. Also tipping is a way to get the most out of your server. If I knew I was geting seven bucks an hour, I would ask what you want, bring out your drinks, never refilling them, drop off the ticket with food. Knowing that I am working for a tip drives me to be personable with my guests and take a responsibilty for the quality of their meal. The one thing I do not understand is people who tip 5 dollars on a hundred dollar ticket. The law requires me to claim ten percent of my sales as tip so you just cost money.

[Frappel]

In the town of 130 000, where I live, we have about 30 full service restaurants and countless fast food places. From Monday through Thursday the restaurants are empty. Only Friday evening, Saturday mid-day and evening, and Sunday for lunch they are full. Please, somebody, how they can operate if they are empty most of the week?

Surely, when you pay for your your $20/meal you are not paying for one meal only two or more. And why would somebody open a restaurant beside another 15 other restaurants? It must be worth it, it must be profitable. And it is. And it seems that the only businesses that are being created is the service industry, the restaurants and fast-foods. What's wrong with this picture?

And why the tips that have actually became service charge and the service charge is already included in the price of your meal, are being split between the entire staff and don't go directly to the person you tip.

Any ideas?

[Justawoman]

You know Frappel I find that incredible that in a town your size the restaurants are empty the majority of the week. Why? Do they just not open up til the weekends? Geez we don't even have 5,000 people in my town and the restaurants are open all week long and busier than a flea on a dog. How do they make enough money to pay their employees and their bills? I for one am bumfuzzled at this bit of information you gave about your hometown.

And why the tips that have actually became service charge and the service charge is already included in the price of your meal, are being split between the entire staff and don't go directly to the person you tip.

This is not true at every restaurant. My 18 year old keeps 100% of her tips. I think it depends on the management on this.

[Justawoman]

At most restaurant chains, even if 15% is added, it does not compensate the server for tipping out other employees. This could include busboys, hosts or bartenders, often as much as 3% of their sales.




Well like I said to Frappel, where my daughter works she gets to keep 100% of her tip. Why? Because the hostess and busboys get paid over minimum wage to do their job. When she is put up front as hostess she never complains. She knows she is making a good paycheck either way. The waiters and waitresses do make the 2.25 an hour plus all your tips. I still think it depends on management. Where she works stays overly busy. There is usually a waiting line on weekends and the service is great. Probably because they are treated so well.

[Alec]

The reason that several restaurants open next to each other is the same reason that you have malls. Stores and restaurants have found that they get more traffic if they are in a location with similar establishments. If you decide you want to eat, you head to the district with all of the restaurants. If you decide you want to shop, you head to the mall.

Probably the reason they can stay in business is that property prices are lower in small towns. It costs less to own or lease the building than it does in big cities. The cost of labor is usually lower also. There might even be lower expectations of profits, but still profits.

[Frappel]

The malls and restaurants create minimum wage jobs. I remember this area was doing very well without the mall and without the chain restaurants. We had small stores and small restaurants and people who owned them and work there were mostly local people. The economy wasn't booming but it was steady. Then the mall came the the small stores had to close. The chain restaurants took care of the mom's and pop's restaurants. Politicians were happy because big businesses brought a lot of jobs.

But also the jobs created were minimum wage jobs, and many people here refused to work for nothing. So to fill the jobs, the businesses started bringing people from outside. Suddenly, it turned out we need affordable housing, so they had to build a low rise condominiums for the less fortunate. The hospital fully financed years before closed its ER because everyone suddenly was uninsured or became uninsured. Maternity ward, closed because illegals were coming in huge numbers and giving birth to their offsprings and didn't pay anything. The hospital couldn't operate. So, there was a need for another hospital. And don't forget the schools, 4 new had to be build. The city didn't have enough water so they had to build a new plant and all that had to be paid by us, the taxpayers. Our property taxes suddenly went up some $400 in one year, just in extra fees and the nice affordable living has quickly became a very different one. Crime went up 500% in 5 years. People not used to the crime in this area suddenly had to arm themselves.

So, if we are a free market economy why is it that I have to pay for everything or tip everyone because they have less. I want everyone to be able to take care of themselves and their families. I don't think that's too much to ask.

To Justawoman,

When my daughter was a baby one of the waiters was playing with her because she started being cranky and thank to him I was able to finish my meal in peace. I wanted to give him a big tip and he asked me if I could mail it to him because here he would have to share the tip with everybody else. That's how I know they are sharing all the tips. I have no idea if every restaurant is the same but I suspect it must be something like that because some of the waiters are really great but some are horrible. The horribles wouldn't make any tip money if the others wouldn't share with them.

[Alec]

If your city is so awful, move out of it. Get a better education. Learn a skill that gets paid better. But quit griping as you type on your computer and suck down your frappuccino.

Companies with employees built the mall. People own the stores in the mall. Companies with employees built the roads. Companies with employees built the housing.

You say that you want everyone to be able to take care of themselves and their families, but in the other thread you are praising a socialistic country -- Germany.

And what does any of this have to do with tipping?

[Frappel]

I wasn't praising socialistic system. I like capitalism but the US of A is not a capitalist country anymore. In a captitalism a person who works, gets paid by his employer not customers. How do you explain then the slashing of the food servers wages in half because they are reciving tips. This is not a captialism. This is more like robbery. How would you like your wages to be cut in half because your wife is earning income as well, so you won't need 100% of your pay.

Now if you are living in a socialistic system, they will take care of you regardless of how much you make. You don't have to worry about health care, dental care, pensions, college education etc... So, if they would slash your salary in half you still won't die of hunger. It is even expected from the government to take care of you.

And where would you propose I move to? Every good community is being systematically screwed. If you find your dream place to live in, the government will make sure you won't enjoy it for too long. They'll bus Somalian immigrants to your neigbourhood just to prove that you cannot have it for yourself. This doesn't even sound like free country anymore.

Bedroom communities are not supposed to grow like big cities. You are supposed to commute to work and come home to sleep.
All services were already there and they were provided byt the local people.
The local people made good incomes. But the greedy companies with people convinced our greedy local politicians that the city will benefit even more, so they took over the services. Our local businesses had to close because they couldn't compete with the new ones. Once the competition was eliminated prices went up again. And then the strangest distribution of income happened. The owners were getting rich but their employees couldn't even support themselves. The community had to take over the support system.

Because the people here still have some savings left, we are being promised an airport. I guess for the Somalians because we certainly don't have the desire to have one.

Anyway, I am multiple national, so I do have a place to go to. But this country is my home and I won't go down without a fight and happily, just because the gov. wants me to.

What this has to do with the tipping? Everything. The kids who are serving you today are being exploited. They have to dance around you with their forced smiles, they have to act sometimes very strangely, and all that for a stupid tip. Did you know that in the restaurant industry only 25% of all employees are honest? That leaves 75% dishonest. And restaurant managers are being told that they cannot use cash to motivate their employees. Praises will do. Don't you think there is a biiiig disconect between the management and the employee? And the customers as well.

The kid in Germany doesn't have credit card bills, he knows ahead of time what he is going to bring home, so he doesn't have to steal or cheat. The French are more like Americans. In France the service charge is always included in the bill but it is written in French. In English they write "tips not included". So American turists are tripping over each other while tipping their wonderful waiters.

**************************
"I used to think I was poor. Then they told me I wasn't poor, I was needy. Then they told me it was self-defeating to think of myself as needy. I was deprived. (Oh not deprived but rather underprivileged.) Then they told me that underprivileged was overused. I was disadvantaged. I still don't have a dime. But I have a great vocabulary."... ...Jules Pfeiffer.

[raybeck]

In my opinion, since I have been following this thread, you seem to have an anger issue. My DH and I have both worked VERY hard for every single thing we have and are proud that we did not have to depend on anyone else but ourselves to enjoy the fruits of our labor. Anyone who is willing to work hard will get a head. Believe me, when we married at age 17 and 19 we didn't have a penny, but my DH put himself through college, then went on to earn his Master's Degree, with NO help...he also worked while in college. He had drive and ambition, not bitterness and anger. We have both worked at jobs that did not pay hardly anything, but we kept working and improving our educations and we now are extremely blessed, to say the least. We have paid more in taxes, than I would guess the average citizen pays, because we have been successful, but you know what, even tho I don't particularly like paying taxes, it beats being on welfare and complaining that everybody else owes me something!!! We've been all the way at the bottom and rose above it by working hard and striving for a better lifestyle! That's the American dream, and I can say we are living proof of it!

[raybeck]

I also wanted to add that one can be successful in many ways other than just having lots of money. Pure happiness and family are worth more to me than any amount of money! One just has to decide that they want to be happy, and not the alternative!

[Justawoman]

What this has to do with the tipping? Everything. The kids who are serving you today are being exploited. They have to dance around you with their forced smiles, they have to act sometimes very strangely, and all that for a stupid tip. Did you know that in the restaurant industry only 25% of all employees are honest? That leaves 75% dishonest. And restaurant managers are being told that they cannot use cash to motivate their employees. Praises will do. Don't you think there is a biiiig disconect between the management and the employee? And the customers as well.

I have to agree with Alec. If it is that bad where you live and where you choose to eat out then don't go out and eat.

Exploited? I think my daughter would laugh at this. She gets highly upset if she is left at hostess for longer than 3 days. She would rather wait tables because she makes more in tips than she does working a higher hourly wage. She has people ask for her sections. Why? It is not because of her forced smile or dancing like an idiot to make the customer feel good. She genuinely likes her job, has learned her repeat costumers preferences, and works hard. Her boss is good to her. Her supervisor is good to her. They have teens and grownups wanting to work in this particular eating establishment. Granted this may be rare but perhaps the family who owns this restaurant figured out something. If they want to stay in business they have to take care of their employees. They have been in business over 50 years. I think they have a reputation for knowing what they are doing. Don't throw every restaurant into your hat of bad businesses who exploit their workers. It is not fair to the rare owners out there who value their employees. I mean my daughter makes her own car payment, pays her insurance and all on a waitress' pay check. She also has money in her checking account after paying her bills. What you say just does not jive in her situation or her fellow workers. I am sure there are other food service employees who would disagree too.

[steamboat]

I tend to agree with JoelWrow. The whole tipping custom is getting out of hand. It just adds a level of complication for the customer. It promotes frustration for the customer, and an "attitude" for the server. The restaurant industry needs to straighten it's act out, and provide a service where it doesn't bite the hand it feeds (joke intended). I'd like to see it abolished, and servers paid a wage appropriate for their skill level. I just want to buy a meal, not become an inadvertant financial planner for servers.

I do not buy the idea that if servers were paid a minimum wage that the meal prices would triple. Yeah right ! Get a clue - Supply and demand will find a reasonable level at which people are willing to eat out, and restaurants continue to make a profit. The niche will be filled.

When I hear people recommending tipping over 20% for a pizza delivery, 20 - 30% "after tax" on meals and wine, see tip jars (a.k.a. "guilt cans") everywhere, and people asking if they should tip a car repair guy, etc. etc., I just roll my eyes. Where will it end ?

[jamesglewisf]

No one I know recommends tipping more than 20% for anything. I'm not sure where you get 30%. It is 15-20% for the food and 10-15% for the wine. That doesn't add up to 30%.

I agree about the tip jars.

[TomFoolery]

I don't understand the objection to tipping. It is just a part of the total expense of the service. If you think the total expense for the service is too high, then eat at home or someplace cheaper.

[steamboat]

Jim:

The 20 - 30% I was referring to comes from various tipping chat sites (from advocates within the restaurant industry), and from talking with people I know in the industry (especially when we're talking about nicer/more expensive restaurants.

Tom Foolery: "eat at home or someplace cheaper"

This is my favorite irrelevant misdirection. Just insult the person asking a question on tipping culture ethics instead of addressing the substance of the question. HELLO - it has nothing to do with being able to afford it. I can afford to tip 1000 percent on a $200 meal, so what ? What’s that got to do with my wanting to simplify the tipping complication ? Re-read my first paragraph.

By the way, I don’t like strawberry ice cream.

[jamesglewisf]

You aren't going to ever hear me recommending anything over 20%. You brought it up here as if someone here was advocating it. I hate tip jars also, and if anyone asks me about tipping a car repair guy, the answer is no.

I don't think you should be offended by people asking if they should tip. They are asking because the don't know. But I agree that waiters and waitresses advocating 20-30% are giving the service industry a bad name.

You don't tip a higher percentage at higher quality restaurants. The food and drinks already cost more, so the same percentage yields a higher tip.

As for tomfoolery's eat at home comment - you weren't asking questions. You just posted the same complaint about tipping in two or three different threads. I'm not saying you are one, but we have a lot of drive-by complainers who pop in to gripe about tipping and then don't contribute anything else. He was probably just over-reacting to it. That said, you are welcome to post anything you want at FrappyDoo.

Tipping is an entrenched custom. The best you can do is open your own restaurants, pay your own employees a decent wage, and then see if you can get quality waitstaff to come work for you. If the model works and you are successful, other restaurants will follow suit.

My country club has a set gratuity - 18% on all food and beverages. That's about as close to what you are saying without doing away with the gratuities altogether. You can't tip more or less, and the food isn't inexpensive. Most of the waiters don't like their pay. They stay because of the benefits, or they don't stay very long. Many work other jobs.

The truth of the matter is that the food service industry doesn't pay real well including gratuities, and most of the people who work in it are young or don't have other marketable skills. It doesn't mean that they don't contribute a useful service to mankind; it's just not a high-paid service.

I love eating out. I usually get great meals and great service, and I don't have to clean up afterwards. That's why recommend the customary gratuities, but advocate being generous if you are inclined to be.

[tface]

I've said it before, and I will say it again... Tipping goes with the entire "dining experience"...if you have a problem with it, stay home and make some Hamburger Helper. Seriously. You will do everyone a favor. Yes, it would be great if bartenders/waiters/busboys were paid as much as, say, an accountant. BUT WE ARE NOT. You don't want to tip because the person wasn't going the "extra mile"? You obviously didn't see him/her cleaning puke out of the bathroom stalls, or having to make a mojito (which requires muddling of mint leaves and lime and sugar, it's too boring to even discuss, let's just say it's a five-minute drink to make while fifteen people are trying to yell out their order), or play therapist to a few lonely souls at the bar, not to mention standing up, never sitting, making conversation for EIGHT HOURS A NIGHT.....We go the extra mile for you, whether you take the time to realize it or not. TIP YOUR BARTENDER/WAITER.

[jack jones]

Yesterday I went to a restaurant. Bill was $32.20 Service was OK. I had some dimes and nickels in my pocket so I left $38.60 (60 cents worth of change) If I hadn't had the change I would've left $38.00
The person I was with said I'd be better leaving $38 because receiving tips that include change was considered offensive to service staff. That sounds ridiculous to me. Is there any truth to that comment?

Regarding the rest of the thread, if waiters are taxed as if they always make 12% tips then I think 12% should be added to the bill by the restaurant. The reason servers make less than accountants is because it's considered a non-skilled profession.

[jamesglewisf]

I don't think so. Change is fine. It all adds up.

[tface]

You know who you are. If you don't want to tip, stay home! Believe me, we wish you would. Buy a $7 steak, cook it in your own kitchen, and clean up after yourselves! Make our lives easier by not showing up to our restaurant! Don't feel like the bartender deserves a dollar on that Jack and Coke? Fine! Buy a bottle of whiskey and STAY HOME!!! If the place paid us what we should be making, your steak would be about fifty dollars! You pay for the enjoyment of going out! Tip, and tip well, and you will have a GREAT night out. Don't tip? You will have a horrible night! You decide! And for those of you who thinks bartenders/waitresses/servers should get an education and a real job, talk to your server for a few minutes--they're probably more educated than you!!!

[tface]

And, also, don't leave change. EVER. Unless it's quarters. That make AT LEAST a dollar.

[butterbird]

I worked at a chain restaurant a few years back and as a server had to rack, rinse and run dishes through dishwasher and put away! Make all my own salads, make desserts, expo all food, any side condiments were portioned by me! They allowed huge parties of 30-40 to have separate checks with no auto-gratuity. Unlimited kids eat free on certain days for instance 2 adults come in split an entree drink water and bring 10 kids who eat free and make a mess run you to death and on around a $8.00 tab after the kids are taken off leave you $2. This was the worst job ever. The following year I was working a great sports bar on Halloween and wore my corporate servers uniform as my costume!! I said it was the scariest thing I could think to wear!! Bottom line is a serving job involves alot more than filling drinks and bringing food. Bartending doesn't just involve opening a beer and handing it to you! Beer does not jump off a truck and into an ice filled well!