Teachers Who Cheat

[Justawoman]

In a prior thread I said I was an avid speech mom. Well I am! I am so excited for my senior daughter who is working on going to state. This past weekend they went to Vernon, TX. for an all debate tournament. The new debate coach, our preachers wife too, put my daughter in the novice round. She also made her debate with a newbie. Why? Her normal debate partner could not get off work. So it is pretty much up in the air who my daughter will actually be partners with. This means my daughter has done all the research and work. Good for her! That means she knows the case inside out. Also she was coached her first three years by a man who has had people go to state and place in almost every area of a speech tournament. She also was coached by her cousin who went to state in debate and placed. So when this new coach informed her she had to present her case as a novice debater, my daughter went with the flow. She didn't want her classmates too intimidated to compete again.

But when she realized this new coach was giving the two other teams, from our town, all of the holes in her debate, she became very upset. I don't blame her. My daughter asked for the teams evidence and it was sure enough in the coaches handwriting. This happened after her coach had watched her first round and knew my daughter was going up against one of her other teams. Students are suppose to come up with their own arguements and evidence. A coach can guide them in to the right areas but the work must be done by the student. That is how my daughter learned and managed to become good at debating. She has also been to state 3 years in a row. Once as a newbie herself.

Now if my daughter had challenged this with the judges our hometown would have been disquailified. Why? My daughter was competing in the final round with a team made up of her own classmates and they were all debating for the first time. My daughter could not come across as an advanced student in a novice round. So instead of making a big deal of it she debated like the advanced student she is and blew them out of the water. After a judges review they let her keep her win when they realized she had no option but to what the coach told her to do. Much to the coaches shagrin she was reprimanded by the judges for doing this to an advance debater. The coach then made the mistake of confronting my daughter on doing this. My daughter came back with the fact that she knew this coach had cheated and that she did not work 3 years in debate to be beaten by a cheater. She even asked this woman where her morals were being a preachers wife and all. Our preachers wife had no answer as she was caught cheating by one of the students in her own church. Nice little twisted story huh?

But question is...
What are your viewpoints on teachers and coaches going to any length to win to make them look better? I am so proud of my daughter for standing up for what she knows is right.

[theyeti]

Man you're right, that is a nice little twisted story. Kudos to your daughter!

This kind of thing is what often turns me personally off of school activities... teachers who feel they are more responsible for outcomes than the students are. In a perfect world, the students would be able to organize and get these things done by themselves, but in reality we need advisors for everything. Then whose those advisors know less about what's going on than the students do... man we have a problem.

OR, when the advisors seem to have more of a stake in it than the students do... there's a problem.

I know what's it's like to be stuck as the only prepared person in a debate. I was in a government class last year where every Friday was debate day. Problem was the only people who actually wanted to debate or who would bother to do any research were me and another person and we agreed on almost everything!

But anyway, it sounds like your daughter has a good head on her shoulders... tell her not to lose heart :) Hopefully the coach will realize what her real place in all of this is supposed to be.

[CuriousG]

Some people are willing to compromise their standards to win at any cost, which is one thing, but often times they don't realize that they are putting others around them in compromising situations as well, and often times against their will. This happens all of the time with teachers and coaches. I honestly think that a lot of these people are so preoccupied with their own agenda, they overlook the effect it has on those they are trying to manipulate.

[Justawoman]

I honestly think I took it harder than she did. She came home and vented and was fine. I guess I am just so tired of hypocrites. This woman goes around our church and community making sure everyone knows what she does not approve of. She needs to look at her own childrens behavior, which is another story unto itself. But thanks for the feedback.

[OnceByten]

Good for your daughter for good through with it, and hadling it with couth! She sounds like an intelligent young lady.

As for the Preachers' Wife it looks good on her to be called out as a cheater!

I think society as a whole has such pressure to succeed and win, that alot of people lose site of the lesson. Children need to learn that the win is not important, but retaining your grace and dignity as you compete are.

[jamesglewisf]

Cheating makes me sick.

Let me caution a little humility, however. I recently went on a rant (not here) about someone who was behaving inappropriately. I had to apologize for being rude about it, and then when I found out I was wrong, I had to go back and apologize for falsely accusing the person.

My point is that you should leave room for ignorance. Maybe the coach needs some coaching herself on what is proper coaching.

Maybe she knew what she was doing wrong and just needs a firm rebuke. She is human. I've been wrong before, been called on it, apologized, and then did better. Instead of writing her off as evil, try to correct her behavior. But don't go in with guns a blazing. Assume ignorance and correct her behavior.

[CuriousG]

Remember, just because she is the preacher's wife, doesn't mean she is not going to struggle with doing the right thing, just like the rest of us. We all make mistakes, whether we're the preachers wife, the mayor's husband, or the postman's daughter. Probably the most powerful and appropriate thing you can do to help a preacher's wife remember the right path is to offer 'forgiveness.'
;-D

[OnceByten]

Well said James and CuriousG, I think the important thing is forgivness. I am sure she will learn from her mistake.

[Justawoman]

I know she is very much an imperfect human like me. What I don't like is how so many like her wear one face for church and another for society. We can't afford to leave our spirituality at the church door when services are over.

This is not the first time the speech team has informed her they don't want to cheat to win. During their first meeting, to figure out who would do what, the coach told them that she had a fellow teacher from another district that was willing to give them old cases that had won in debate. She also went as far as to say that all they would have to do is embellish and make it theirs. The debate team flat told her no that they viewed this as cheating. They knew how much work went into researching and preparing a case. They wanted to win on their own merits.

Yesterday my daughter informed me that her former partner did not want to compete because of the coach and withdrew. So when my daughter approached the coach about pairing with another student, she informed her that everyone had a partner. So we are looking at going to another school district just for debate. My daughter doesn't regret standing up for what was right but now she is depressed that her last year in high school she might not be debating. Tonight is open house at high school. I plan on talking to the coach.

[CuriousG]

Ahh, more to the story I see...

[Grimey]

It sounds like some parents need to talk to her supervisor.

[Debby]

I am glad that your daughter stood up for what was right! You should be very very proud of your daughter and I know that you are! :)

[Justawoman]

This woman is nuts. She, and the speech club president, sent a memo home with all participating students. It said, " we are having a meeting September 30 in the speech room. It is mandatory that you show up for this meeting. We don't care if you have to be at work, doctor's appointment, or whatever. You must show up or you are off the speech team. Please make an appearance."

My two daughters who are on the speech team found this note humorous. First, it is mandatory then they use the word please. I like my daughters sense of humor. I asked them what the urgent meeting was about. They said the student president read off a piece of paper what they can expect at tournaments. Afterwards they said everyone asked the coach and president why they did this as everyone there knows what tournaments are about and what to expect. They just wanted to see if they would show up. I have a feeling our whole school year of competition will be based on such juvenile decisions. The coach has a great group of students who compete. They are all top in their grade and compete with all of their heart. Of course they will show up. Now I fear they won't take her so serious. Kinda like the little boy who cried wolf.

[jamesglewisf]

It's time to talk to this woman yourself. If her behavior doesn't improve, then talk to whomever she reports to.

[Duderton_McNall]

I know a teacher somewhat like that as well. At the school I attend, the government teacher seems to hate me and my friend for no reason at all, and tries to take every opportunity to make things harder for us. One day, we all got into groups and make big posters where we traced a person and made them be in a certain political party. There were about 8 posters in all, each about 6-7 feet long, and the teacher made me and my friend hang them all up. She didn't even get us tape. We had to go down to the office to get it, then she yelled at us for leaving the classroom.

We also play review games in the class the day before each test. Me, my friend Bryan (the one mentioned previously) and 2 other guys are always in the same group. Bryan and I usually answer our group's questions, being that we are the top 2 in our government class and usually know everything. The teacher purposely gives us the hardest questions, reads them as fast as she can, then acts indignant when we get the answer right. This has been going on since early September, and I just thought it fit in a bit with the other teacher story so I decided to share.

~Duderton_McNall

[jamesglewisf]

Sounds frustrating.

[Justawoman]

Thought I needed to do an update. I did go in with my daughter after school. This was around two weeks ago. She pretty much has the personality of a grown up that knows it all and is always right. My daughter and I left frustrated. But the speech trips are better and this woman is now polite to my daughter. I think I shocked her actually showing up and monitoring a conversation between her and my daughter. I wanted to see how they both treated each other before I got involved. I am the first to never assume my girls are all angels. I live with them.

But what I did say that day was, " respect works both ways, Mrs. W. You want your students to respect you, then you need to show respect for their feelings and quit babying them about every little thing on these trips. You need to speak to them like you want them speaking to you. I've never known yelling to work ever with children." Well I got one of those looks like you get from your mother when she wants to scold you but has no clue what to say. I was not intimidated.

She demands they check in after each round of competition they are in. Some kids can't do this as they compete back to back. This is just one of her ridiculous rules.

[CuriousG]

Some teachers are just like that. For them it's just a job and they don't realize that their attitude can have a big effect on the students they interact with.

Speaking of which, Justawoman, how did everything go with the debate coach?

[Justawoman]

Well CG, that was who my post, prior to yours, was about.

I did forget to add that the speech kids did go talk to the principal. He said to document everything that transpired on the speech trips between her and students. If there is enough of the same complaints then he can do something.

[CuriousG]

Whoops, sorry, I must have missed that post. Well, I'm glad things seem to be working better.

[Justawoman]

Quick update. My daughter quit the speech team. She talked to her Art Teacher and she basically told her what I did. She had two options, either tough it out or quit. The Art teacher understood the politics of school paperwork and how unlikely the principal was to report the speech coach without positive proof. My daughter also talked to the Womens Athletic Coach and she told the same thing. So since it is her senior year and it should be fun, stress free as much as possible, she quit. It really made the speech coach mad because my daughter was one point away from going to state. But the coach never would admit she was wrong in her own attitude.

[jamesglewisf]

Well, that's a bummer.

[Justawoman]

Well life goes on for the teenager. *L* She has bigger fish to fry. Like where to go to college this coming fall.